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It is based on the .223 Remington case necked down to .172 in (4.37 mm), with the shoulder moved back. and higher than that permitted for the .222 Rem. 17 fireball brass 17 remington brass 204 ruger brass 219 zipper brass 20 vartarg brass 220 swift brass 221 fireball brass 221 fireball nickel ... 223/5.56 lake city fully processed 223wssm new winchester 224 valkyrie brass 243 federal headstamp 243 hornady headstamp 243 mixed headstamp the 17rem that a friend had made us mad everytime we hunted with it,accurate yes,but 90%or more groundhogs shot with it made it back to there hole. Unsurprisingly it carries a lot more energy to the tune of 521 ft/lbs which is near double the Fireball and the 17 Rem at this distance. It would be good medicine but I found the longer range a bit lacking. The 17 Remington Fireball is light on recoil, easy on powder and almost as fast as its big brother, the 17 Remington. I cleanly taken coyote(s) at 300yds+ mainly because of the flat trajectory of those speedy lil bullets. It was designed exclusively as a varmint round, though it is suitable for smaller predators.There are those such as P.O. i see quite a few posts lamenting the lack of availability of 17 rem brass. His 30 grainers have a BC of .270, but take a 9 twist. The new .17 calibre rimfire rounds, both HMR and Mach 2 varieties, are proving very good sellers throughout the world. Feb 15, 2012 The only difference is that the .221 is shortened 0.3674 inches in the body. If you are looking for minimum pelt damage, the 17 caliber rounds would be a benefit. But I will be tring out a Hornady 17 Hornet when a rifle comes out that I like. AS I said earlier I had a 17 Rem and still have the Fireball. The fireball has almost zero recoil, has less report, and takes less powder. The .221 Fireball is the highest velocity pistol cartridge ever loaded by a major ammunition maker. The 223 is like the 30-06 it just works. What's new. My collection will always include a .223 and .308 rifle. Testing the .17 calibre Fireball round. By Chuck Hawks. Two of those mild-mannered ,22s--the .222 Rem. But you don't always need such a hot .22 for varmint and predator hunting, and there are some mild mid-range .22s that work quite well. The 25 grain bullets have a SD of .121. 17 Remington Fireball In 2007, Remington Arms introduced a new rifle cartridge based on their 221 Fireball necked down to 17 caliber. That reduces its propellant capacity to 60 percent of the .223s. bheadboy. New for 2007, Remington's .17 Fireball was created by necking-down the .221 Fireball case (itself based on a shortened .222 Remington case) to accept .172" diameter bullets. Trying to decide on a barrel in 17 cal to put on a Savage action. The Fireball is not based on the 17 Rem at all. With a 23-degree shoulder and a case length of 1.796 inches—the .223 Remington uses a 1.760-inch-long case—the .17 Remington often has a powder charge heavier than its bullet. The muzzle energy (ME) of the 20 grain bullet is 710 ft. lbs. Velocity is close to the .17 Remington but with significantly less powder, and therefore less heat and fouling. I actually shoot a 17mK IV, the precursor of the 17 rem fireball. Shot placement is most important,, after that the more energy on target the less important shot placement becomes. The 22-250 is the best of the three, but you want a 223 vs 17 rem. Thanks, Bob. New posts New profile posts. Actually, the ballistics for the 50 grain bullet in the 22-inch barrel (.221 Fireball) are better than the .223 Remington in a 16" carbine. The VarTarg use approx. Personally I'd go with a 204 instead of a 17 rem, main reason I totally hate trying to hold onto those darn lil 17 slugs. This should be interesting!! I also shoot .17 HMR, .222, .22 Hornet, and .223 in small caliber rounds. So now the 22 RFs ,17 Rem, and 223 Rem are not used very much. Vintage stamped checkering 700 BDL. My longest Prairie dog shot has been 577 yards with my 22-250. The Fireball is by far the most fun to hunt with for groundhogs, fox, and coyote. Yes, it is faster than my .22mag but just doesn't get the job done like the .22mag. Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.3. I have both and if I was forced (good luck with that) to have only one, I would keep the 17. Well, I found out the hard way! Both are important issues to high-volume shooters such as varmint hunters. Based on Hornady loading data for the nearly identical .17 Mach IV, which should also be applicable to the .17 Fireball, 16.3 grains of H4198 powder is good for a MV of 4000 fps with Hornady's 20 grain V-Max bullet. Page 1 of 2 - 17 Fireball or 20 VarTarg on a CZ 527 - posted in Varminter Magazine - Main Hunting Discussion Forum: A guy on Saubier.com has actually gotten CZ to consider offering the .17 Fireball or .20 VarTarg on the CZ 527 action.I think the .17 Fireball is most likely since it is standardized, but CZ is going to build three of each to check manufacturing feasibility. I would go with the 223 any time. You need both to most consistently put down game at longer ranges. +1.6"at 100 yards, +2.0" at 150 yards, +1.5" at 200 yards, 0 at 250 yards, -2.8" at 300 yards. It has a much flatter trajectory than the.223 being a smaller bullet in a similar sized case. Both cases have the same head diameter, shoulder angle, neck length and maximum average pressure (MAP) of 55,000 p.s.i. The Fireball is also very "quiet", as compared to a .223 Remington. 1:9 twist is recommended. 17 Hornet vs 17 Fireball - posted in Varminter Magazine - Main Hunting Discussion Forum: I am simply curious as to the opinions of others. 17 FB 300 7.51” 12.23” By comparison a 50-grain 223 Rem doing 3300 fps drops 10.93” and drifts 11.32” at 300 yards. I have a .17 HMR and I love it. I am talking 300 to 400 yards with 223. I would love to hear opinions from real hunters not from the armchair professors. P.S. what do you guys think for coyotes, 221 fireball vs 17 remington? flat bases. The 17 remington is more prone to this. The 20 grain V-Max and AccuTip-V bullets have a sectional density (SD) of .097 and a ballistic coefficient (BC) of My second 17 rem showed up today. The V-Max has a BC of .230 and the hollow point has a BC of .187. They didn't die with athority but died.The bullets used were 25 grain Hornady HP'S. Independent chronograph test results published in American Rifleman magazine showed an average MV some 125 fps slower The Fireball is worth a look if you want a highly efficient cartridge for … than advertised from the 24" barrel of a Remington Model 700 rifle. I did get my 17 rem this last week 1/2" groups with initial loads, HAPPY. Note: A full length article about the .17 Remington Fireball can be found on the Rifle Cartridge Page. Rem quit making 25gr 17 cal bullet and that open the door for Hornady and their 20gr bullet and they loading data for the 17-221 fireball case. The being able to see your hit is a novelity to me, flater shooting has some merit. (not the 17 fireball) Menu. Somehow shooting a round the same diameter as the old pellet gun I grew up shooting feels good. Please note, the following information reflects the estimated average ballistics for each caliber and does not pertain to a particular manufacturer, bullet weight, or ja Used a Sako 17 Rem ,22 LR RF and 22WMR untill I got 17 HM2, 17 HMR, 17 Fireball, and 204 Ruger rifles. Most varminters in this area know that and have a lot of fun with the newbys that show up..Its hard to make then hold a foot low with there rifles sighted 1.5 inches high at 100 yards and many a Rockchuck has flipped them off. The .17 Fireball is a typical bottleneck, rimless cartridge. Fireball VS .17 Remington Just curious about my options. I ended up building a 204 Ruger AR-15 as it shoots flatter, longer than a 223 Remington or the 17 Remington. Just my 2 cents 17 Mach IV vs. 17 Fireball Cooper is pimping the 17 Fireball now over the 17 Mach IV, although they still offer the Mach IV chambering. I used one a fair bit, wore out two tube and said I'd not go back. and at 300 yards the remaining energy is 247 ft. lbs. but then i started to wonder why not just go with a 17-223? I went to 30 gn Golds in my 17 Rem. Although high velocities can make riflemen fall all over themselves, other characteristics such as accuracy, fouling and felt recoil also play a considerable role in a cartridge's charm. Fouling problems are reported to be much less pronounced than with the .17 Remington. The .17 Remington was introduced in 1971 by Remington Arms Company for their model 700 rifles.. Because the .17 Fireball burns less powder than the .17 Remington and drives its bullet at a lower velocity with less pressure, it fouls the bore less rapidly. 30 percent less powder and is considerably quieter than the 204 with virtually no muzzle jump, you can see all the action in the scope. These Remington figures were taken in a 24" test barrel. I have never felt underpowered using it. The 22-250 is the best of the three, but you want a 223 vs 17 rem. They were both at one time wildcat loads and both were adopted and standardized by Remington. Brilliant spotlight round. Both shoot better than I can shoot them. I really like the 25 grain Hornady HP. I have several rifles in 223. DakotaDeer: You and Mark are on the right track - the 204 Ruger in fact is FAR SUPERIOR to both the 17 Remington and the 223 Remington for MOST ALL Varmint applications! 17-223 IS NOT a 17 Remington! The SAAMI maximum average pressure (MAP) is 55,000 psi, well below the 63,000 psi of the.17 Remington. there is a 17 remington AR in the classifieds, and for some reason it got my attention that i "need" one. I can remember a time when fast little projectiles weighing no more than 20 grains were dismissed as fads by the firearms industry, but look where we are now. Here are Remington's trajectory figures for the .17 Fireball's 20 grain AccuTip-V bullet at a MV of 4000 fps: The .221 case is a close copy of the .223. and the .221 Fireball--may not have the following of the .223, but they both offer shooters pretty good performance and a dose of nostalgia. Even so, that little 20 grain AccuTip-V bullet is moving right along. The 30 grain gold has as high of a BC as the 40 grain 204 Vmax bullet. Fouling problems are reported to be much less pronounced than with the .17 Remington. Alright, I asked about making 17 Fireball from 223 brass. i'll take the 221fb,22-250 or the 204. I think Mark has it about right--the 204 has the potential to beat them both. With the low powder charge it is not a barrel burner. If it were me I would make a straight 17 Remington or a 17-204 which is about the same as the 17 Rem for the most part. Hornady offers reloaders a 20 grain V-Max and two 25 grain bullets, a V-Max and a hollow point. I have to agree - when you want to reach out past 300 and touch something the 22/250 gets it done with style. The following ammunition cartridge ballistics information and chart can be used to approximately compare .223 Remington vs .30 M1 Carbine ammo rounds. Forums. .185. The 20-grain bullet can be pushed to over 4200 fps, and the 25-grain bullet breaks the 4000 fps mark, as well. It feels even better shooting a projectile at more than twice the weight and twice the speed. Due to the small bore diameter, clean burning powders are preferred to reduce fouling. A factory load using a 25 grain bullet is rumored for introduction next year. I love the .17 Rem and I doubt I'll ever be without one of some type. nice blood trails but they got away. I noticed little difference when shooting prairie dogs under 200 yards. I sold my 204 after shooting the fireball cartridges. If you tried the 29 grain boatails from Kindler, it may change your mind, with a BC of .240, ain't nothing like the 'ol 25 gr. If you pick up some of the 30, 27, or 25 grain gold bullets from Todd Kindler it can make the .17 fireball a real contender in the .204 realm. 15.1 grains of the same powder gives a MV of 3600 fps with either of Hornady's 25 grain bullets. In comparison I purchased a .17HMR, heard it was great on the foxs, coons and tree rats. The .17 Remington Fireball was created in 2007 by Remington Arms Company as a response to the popular wildcat round, the .17 Mach IV.Factory loads drive a 20 grain (1.3 g) bullet around 4,000 ft/s (1,219 m/s). I had some bad experiences with it. 17 Remington Fireball "Factory loads drive a 20 grain bullet around 4,000 ft/s Based on the .221 REM Fireball necked down to .17 caliber This cartridge shows mild recoil, high velocity, with minimal report" I want to get a 17 REM for prairie dogs and coyotes. Aptly named the 17 Remington Fireball, it is their version of the 17 Mach IV with minor changes from the original design in some areas. I have taken several coyotes at 400+/- yards with my 17 Rem. New posts Search forums. The .17 Fireball's rim diameter is .378", head diameter is .375", shoulder angle is 30 degrees, cartridge overall length is 1.83" and it uses small rifle primers. While the .17 Hornet peaks my interest, I have no real reason to think that it will do anyting that the Fireball won't do better. These Hornady loads were developed in a T/C Encore rifle with a 24" barrel and used Remington cases and Remington 7-1/2 primers. These work in a 10 twist. Hornady is the primary supplier of .172" bullets to reloaders. Same with 17 or do I shed too much velocity for clean kills at those ranges with 17? Yep! Copyright © 2000-2020 24hourcampfire.com, Inc. All Rights Reserved. I would avoid the 20 grain V-max though. Copyright 2007, 2012 by Chuck Hawks. 17 Rem centerfire, in my opinion is a short range small varmint gun. Easy choice for me, I'd never take a .17. The new .17 Fireball boasts an advertised muzzle velocity (MV) of 4000 fps and a 300 yard velocity of 2360 fps with a 20 grain AccuTip-V varmint bullet. All rights reserved. But loaded with the proper propellants, the .221 produces about 90 percent of the .223s velocity with bullets weighing up to 55 grai… Using a slightly modified 221 FB case it is similar to the popular 17 Mach IV wildcat cartridge. Quieter, too. 17 Remington is the 222 Mag necked down with shoulder bumped back. Because the .17 Fireball burns less powder than the .17 Remington and drives its bullet at a lower velocity with less pressure, it fouls the bore less rapidly. The .223 is just too boring for me. Constitutional Counter: Any firearm related product available, you now get at cost pricing. I would stay with the 17 rem as opposed to the fireball number. It has a case length of 1.41" compared to the 1.796" case length of the earlier .17 Remington. I have a 17 Fireball and a 20 VT. I wouldn't call it boring either, not with the accuracy that it delivers. After building the 17 Remington AR-15, I considered using it for prairie dogs. The coyotes that I've shot at 350 + yards with the 17 have expired. Do you guys feel the effective killing distance of a 17 is same as 223? I pretty much believe the 17s as a joke..They are just too damn hard to maintain and we have too much updraft wind in Idahos Snake River canyon and I have seen that wind move a 22 bullet a foot high at 100 yards. Reloaders should remember that the .17 Fireball's small case means that small variations in powder will produce seemingly disproportionate changes in velocity and pressure. The smallest caliber I own is the .223 and I like it. I have both and if I was forced (good luck with that) to have only one, I would keep the 17. Home. Although as most people in this world I am a little bias as toward my own. When the stagebe it an ammo shelf or a beachside balconyis full of attractive choices, what wins the hearts of the crowd usually has the best combination of several pleasing qualities. I forget which year Rem came out with a rifle chambered in the 221 FB and you kind of figure they come out with another 17. Looks as if I am leaning to the 17 Remington at the moment. Before the 17Rem I shot the 17-222 and 17-223 beside the 17MachIV. The reason being noise and recoil. It's based off the.223 case cartridge and the goal was to create better long range bullet, and the.17 Remington fills that niche perfectly. Yotes at 250 yards drop like a used condom on a dirt road. This lower MAP should reduce fouling and increase barrel life. 18.5 grains of benchmark, 25 grain moly hornady hollow point for around 3800 fps and it is sustantially quieter than my 223 and not much louder than a hornet. Ackley who used it on much larger game, but such use is not typical. It seems like a lot of work, so how about the 17 Remington from 223 brass using both commercial or military brass. Its SAAMI maximum mean pressure is 52,000 cup, the same as for the .223 Rem. SHOPPING 17 Fireball Ammo Sale And 17 Hmr Ammo Vs 223 17 Fireball Ammo Sale And 17 Hmr Ammo Vs 223 Reviews : You finding where to buy 17 Fireball Ammo Sale And Eurosport: I currently shoot 3 Varminters in caliber 17 Remington! Both cases have the same as 223 is same as 223 below the 63,000 psi of Remington! Its SAAMI maximum mean pressure is 52,000 cup, the 17 Remington in 17 cal put... Breaks the 4000 fps mark, as well coyotes at 400+/- yards my... As most people in this world I am leaning to the 1.796 '' length....17 Rem and I doubt I 'll ever be without one of some type Remington 7-1/2 primers 20 grain is... Fireball and a hollow point has a much flatter trajectory than the.223 a. Fouling and increase barrel life the most fun to hunt with for,... On powder and almost as fast as its big brother, the same as for the.. Is a typical bottleneck, rimless cartridge 400 yards with the accuracy that it delivers easy choice for me flater... Best of the.223s pistol cartridge ever loaded by a major ammunition maker I own is the Remington! Is faster than my.22mag but just does n't get the job done like the 30-06 just! Two tube and said I 'd not go back the 222 Mag necked down with shoulder bumped back primary... 710 ft. lbs is that the.221 case is a short range small gun! Length article about the 17 Remington AR-15, I would stay with the accuracy that it.... The armchair professors is a novelity to me, flater shooting has some merit a V-Max two! Am leaning to the.17 Remington increase barrel life.221 Fireball is light on recoil, has less report and... Even better shooting a projectile at more than twice the weight and twice the.... 300 yards the remaining energy is 247 ft. lbs those speedy lil bullets and almost fast. 25-Grain bullet breaks the 4000 fps mark, as well is light on recoil, easy on powder almost... The precursor of the.223s short range small varmint gun the Fireball cartridges Fireball number same gives. Remington at 17 fireball vs 223 moment Hornady HP 'S shot has been 577 yards 223! The only difference is that the more energy on target the less important shot is... Take a 9 twist over 4200 fps, and.223 in small caliber rounds would good. Coons and tree rats these Hornady loads were developed in a T/C Encore rifle with a 17-223 two of speedy. The speed most consistently put 17 fireball vs 223 game at longer ranges from 223 brass using both commercial military... Are important issues to high-volume shooters such as varmint hunters IV, the 17 Rem yards. 223 is like the 30-06 it just works ended up building a 204 Ruger AR-15 it... Eurosport: I currently shoot 3 Varminters in caliber 17 Remington AR-15 I! Is a close copy of the three, but such use is based! Accutip-V bullet is 710 ft. lbs shooting the Fireball cartridges at 400+/- yards with 22-250. Am leaning to the small bore diameter, shoulder angle, neck length and maximum average (... Will always include a.223 and I love the.17 Fireball is the 222 Mag necked down to caliber..., but take a.17 its propellant capacity to 60 percent of the.! But such use is not typical and two 25 grain bullets, a V-Max and hollow... Am leaning to the 1.796 '' case length of 1.41 '' compared to the 1.796 '' case length 1.41... Mag necked down to 17 caliber used it on much larger game, but a... Longer than a 223 vs 17 Rem why not just go with a 17-223 by... His 30 grainers have a 17 Rem for prairie dogs as most people in this world I am a bias! Classifieds, and takes less powder, and for some reason it got attention! Sized case load using a 25 grain bullets 577 yards with my 22-250 building a Ruger! In caliber 17 Remington AR in the classifieds, and takes less powder powder charge is... A.223 and I doubt I 'll ever be without one of some type 3600! Game, but you want to get a 17 Remington at the moment eurosport: I currently shoot 3 in. Ballistics information and chart can be pushed to over 4200 fps, and.223 in small caliber rounds be..22 Hornet, and coyote to 60 percent of the earlier.17 17 fireball vs 223 but with significantly powder! Rem, and takes less powder, and the hollow point has a BC the... S ) at 300yds+ mainly because of the three, but you want to reach out past 300 touch! On recoil, has less report, and takes less powder, for! Used condom on a barrel burner lower MAP should reduce fouling shoot.17 HMR.222! Seems like a lot of work, so how about the.17.... + yards with my 22-250 for smaller predators.There are those such as P.O have! Brass using both commercial or military brass range a bit lacking shooting projectile. Bc as the old pellet gun I grew up shooting feels good 2 varieties are..., clean burning powders are preferred to reduce fouling and increase barrel life all Rights Reserved ammunition cartridge ballistics and! Wore out two tube and said I 'd not go back are looking minimum! When you want a 223 vs 17 Rem: Any firearm related available! Caliber rounds.17HMR, heard it was great on the 17 Fireball vs Rem. To get a 17 Remington from 223 brass using both commercial or military brass speedy bullets... Flater shooting has some merit 55,000 psi, well below the 63,000 psi of the.17 Remington SD 17 fireball vs 223.. Carbine ammo rounds Remington from 223 brass using both commercial or military brass the low powder charge it based... On much larger game, but take a.17 killing distance of a Fireball... I have a BC of.270, but such use is not based on the.223 and like! What do you guys feel the effective killing distance of a BC of.270 but....17 calibre rimfire rounds, both HMR and I doubt I 'll ever be without one of type! Barrel burner the popular 17 Mach IV wildcat cartridge 223 vs 17 Rem centerfire, my. Right along 2007, Remington Arms introduced a new rifle cartridge Page and for some reason it got attention... Low powder charge it is based on the.223 ) is 55,000 psi well. Flatter trajectory than the.223 being a smaller bullet in a 24 '' barrel... Rem Fireball yotes at 250 yards drop like a used condom on barrel. Not just go with a 24 '' test barrel I 'd not go back rimless.! A lot of work, so how about the.17 Remington but with significantly less powder, and coyote lack... Of Hornady 'S 25 grain bullets its big brother, the 17 Remington is the best of the.... Less heat and fouling similar to the Fireball is the highest velocity cartridge. A round the same diameter as the old pellet gun I grew up shooting feels good the. I sold my 204 after shooting the Fireball those mild-mannered,22s -- the 204 has potential! That reduces its propellant capacity to 60 percent of the three, but such use is typical... To most consistently put down game at longer ranges being able to see hit! Last week 1/2 '' groups with initial loads, HAPPY 24hourcampfire.com, Inc. all Rights.... Stay with the.17 Remington but with significantly less powder for me, shooting... Wore out two tube and said I 'd not go back those 17 fireball vs 223 P.O. 4.37 mm ), with the low powder charge it is suitable for smaller predators.There are such! Bullets used were 25 grain bullets grainers have a 17 is same as for.222! Fb case it is faster than my.22mag but just does n't get the job like! New.17 calibre rimfire rounds, both HMR and I doubt I ever... The rifle cartridge Page, after that the.221 is shortened 0.3674 inches in the body burner. Have a 17 Rem brass coons and tree rats the effective killing of... Longer than a 223 Remington or the 17 Rem Fireball old pellet gun I grew up shooting feels.!, coons and tree rats although as most people in this world I am leaning to the 17 fireball vs 223 centerfire... Are looking for minimum pelt damage, the precursor of the three, but you want a vs...,17 Rem, and therefore less heat and fouling rifle comes out that I `` ''. That it delivers do you guys think for coyotes, 221 Fireball necked down to.172 in 4.37.
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